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Subject: FLYING ANTS ARE DEAD!!!!

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GRAHAM VICKERS
Posts:12

Posted:10-02-2011 10:11 AM

Hi to anyone that may read this,

The Flying Ants are dying due to lack of motivation through commitee members (IM NOT HAVING AGO AT ANYONE JUST BEING VERY BROAD) not having enough time in todays hectic lifestyles to help promote these great little boats.

Now I have spoken to Peter Liddle in regards to boat and spar measurements and was directed back to the website. Now when you open the link for measuremetns that is very well and good until you cant read the measurement that you require. Littke things like this is very off putting, FIX send me the measurements and I will redo the drawings so that they can be read easily.

Also after talking too the ONLY two ants at TASC (Toronto) there seems to be the understanding that once the age of 16 your required to leave FA's, I have read the rules and it states clearly 18yrs old why have these kids got the wrong idea or is it that the rules have not been updated.

I have a boat that I paid for when I was 16 in 1998 for the sum of $2,500.00 named WATER RATS AKA CHILDS PLAY the boat was in desparat need of TLC so once I turned 18yrs old I decided to refurb and sell it, so I pulled off the deck and replaced it, looked at the FA website and noticed the class was dead so in the shed it went from 2000 - 2011 now the class is coming back slowly and to help me sell my boat I have now spent $2000.00 on new mast boom spin pole and fitting etc. Why I dont know as it seem I will only recieve $2000.00 for the Newly painted boat sails used for 6 races new spars it owes me abut $5,000.00

I would get this it the class was at large again. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO TO GET IT BACK UP THERE AS A DESIRABLE CLASS TO THE YOUNG PEOPLE.

The website is dead no one wants to give any ideas or help when people ask for it the latest Nantionals info in the forum is 2006 ??????
Why is the website dying Mods need to browse this website at least once a week or get removed from moderating it, if the mods dot care neither does anyone else.

So this is where I put my hand up and ask what can I do to help this class get back on its feet, do we have a NSW state dinner, a fund raiser to go away on a holiday, what is it that we need to get people interested not only in the class but to have friends that have the same interests.

I ask for anyone to call me Graham on 0403 746 860 to discuss what we can do. If something is already being done can I help. As I said havnt been in ants for ages just seems very slow.

I remember my mates and I had friends everywhere WA QLD SA VIC etc.

Lee Humphreys
Posts:5

Posted:22-03-2011 12:16 PM

Hello Graham (alias FA 513)
Thanks for your input into the discussion pages of our website. Whilst I can see some of your points as valid, I do take umbrage to a large portion of your comments and feel that I must reply.
Firstly, for someone who feels so strongly about the future of the Flying Ants, the heading of “ Flying Ants are dead” is absolutely the wrong message to be putting out there and also shows that you have a misguided perception of the real state of the class at an Australian level.
Your first statement that “The Flying Ants are dying due to lack of motivation through commitee (sic) members” is offensive and categorically wrong. The past and current committees are all groups of people who put the future of the class at a premium and give a great deal of their precious time to ensuring the class not only survives but flourishes. As an example, three years ago a decision was made by the WA association to invest their capital into the purchase of three new hulls as a package and sold them at cost to skippers who wanted new boats. The reasoning was that stock on hand is just as valuable as cash in the bank. The effect here was threefold. Firstly, it meant that the hulls were slightly cheaper than buying singularly from the builder. Hulls were made available “Off the shelf” in WA, cutting out build and delivery times. Secondly, with the addition of three new boats the quality of the fleet was improved. Thirdly, the older boats being put up for sale making an entry level boat which new skippers could afford but was still competitive.
With regards to your comments about the measurements on the web site, all measurements are clearly defined in the Constitution. I admit that the drawings themselves have not transposed well onto PDF but these drawings have been around for a long time. They are however over-ridden by the Constitution should there be any variances. As for “send me the measurements and I will redo the drawings so that they can be read easily”, please accept my invitation as WA President to draw the plans. As mentioned previously, the measurements are in the constitution. Please be aware that any “new” plans must be ratified at an Australian meeting so therefore I cannot guarantee they will be accepted.
The Constitution also clearly states “The crew for Association controlled events shall consist of two (2) persons with a minimum age of nine (9) years and a maximum age of eighteen (18) years. No person shall sail in Association races unless they are over the age of nine (9) years and under the age of eighteen (18) years on the 1st of September in that current season.”So perhaps the sailors you spoke to did have the wrong information. However, it is very rare that a sailor stays in the class until that age as by then they have generally out grown them either physically or ability wise and moved on to other classes, such as the 29er in WA.
As for your paragraph relating to your own boat and that you will not get back the money that you have spent, all I can say is “Welcome to sailing”. Parents of Flying Ant sailors are under no illusion that the initial purchase price and the subsequent additions and replacements will be redeemable once their child moves on to another class. I would suspect that the wider sailing fraternity is also under no illusion. It is just the price of sailing. Your comment “looked at the FA website and noticed the class was dead so in the shed it went from 2000 - 2011” is also questionable as the website in its current form was only introduced around 2005. To judge the status of a class by its website, in 2000, would be pure speculation and not a true indication of its strength.
In NSW, Victoria and WA, there are hard working committees who all want the Flying Ant class to grow. The last Australian Championships were held at Parkdale Victoria with nineteen entries. This was a great result as the home state is still in a rebuilding phase and so the number of local boats was down. To have a large group of visiting boats participating shows the level of commitment that is present in the other states which should in turn lead to more boats on the water. Last year was the first season the number of entries in the Australian Championships has dropped below twenty five since 2004.The website shows that in 2003 in Queensland there were twenty two entries. 2007 at TCYC in WA there were thirty seven. All of this information was gained from the web site.
WA in particular is very strong at the moment with seventeen boats competing in the recent State Championships. Twelve boats are sailing each week at TCYC and this number is expected to be similar next season with EFYC expecting their fleet to expand to possibly nine boats next season, MBSC, ten and new fleets at SSC and MOFSC having in the region of five boats each. Some of these numbers can be a bit flattering with some boats sailing Saturday at one club and Sunday at another but I would estimate that WA would have in the region of twenty five to thirty boats sailing each week. You may note on the website that we are advertising in an effort to locate all the boats that are in sheds and not being used as we are running out of boats to put our kids on.
Sailing, along with just about all sports is cyclical by nature. There can be large, hot fleets at one club or state for a few years, then a lull as these sailors move on and new ones take their place. The challenge for all of the committees and yacht clubs is to keep a steady stream of junior sailors coming through the system.
TCYC in WA has around 100 junior sailors training on Saturday mornings. The most junior of these sail Mudlarks, progressing to Minnows, Ants and then 29ers. The dropout rate of these juniors is less than 10% which is a complete reversal of the statistics of other clubs where their retention rate is under 10%. I believe it is the steady transition from class to class that allows this to occur and also helps maintain a healthy fleet level in the Flying Ants.
Recently, Yachting WA has seen the value of the Flying Ant as a lead in class to the International Skiff fleet, the 29er which leads to the Olympic 49er. This progression from skiff to skiff to skiff is being recognised in WA, not just by the skiff coaches and eventually YWA but by the juniors themselves. Bottom line is, they want to go fast and what other boat is going to let you do that than an Ant? Perhaps this is the line that all State committees should be pushing to their respective Yachting Australia reps. In WA at least, the YA model seems flawed in that it promotes keeping kids in slow uninteresting boats until they drop out with boredom. The TCYC model is fast being replicated at other WA clubs and hopefully this will force WA and other states to consider the Flying Ant when allocating support and recognition.
The Flying Ant website is run by volunteers who give up their time to provide accurate information such as Notice of Races, Results, Classifieds and the like as they come to hand. The fact that the Discussion Pages are not utilised a great deal is not their fault, nor their concern. Condemning a website and Association because of this is misguided and misdirected. The total number of “views” of the various posts is just under ten thousand which in the age of Facebook, MSN and SMS is credible. The fact that there are significantly less replies is not in the moderators hands and they cannot be held accountable for that.
In your conclusion you offered assistance “to to help this class get back on its feet.” TASC will be hosting the Australian Championships from December 27 to Jan 2 and I am sure they would love some assistance in getting as many boats there and also building their fleet leading up until then. I invite you to call the NSW Committee and offer your time to assist in making the Regatta and seasons to follow successful. The Committee details are also on the website.

Regards
Lee Humphreys
FASSAWA President.

Please Note: The views in this post are those of the author and not necessarily those of the Flying Ant Association or Yacht Clubs

GRAHAM VICKERS
Posts:12

Posted:23-03-2011 5:15 PM

Hi Lee & other readers that may stumble across this website purely by accident because it doesnt look like there is any traffic.

So........ you have turned around what I have said to suit yourself to try justify the FLYING ANT scene. Basically what I have said is shortly after 2000 the class has deminished rapidly and it is not the sailors fault but the committee. Now saying that I am not having a go at anyone, what im saying is that the ideas arnt working and need change or the class will fizzel out.

Think what you want but in 2000 there was a massive fleet 25 boats in GRSC 20 or so in TASC 10 in ISC now the numbers speak for themselves.

Ok I understand familys did it hard with interest rates etc etc etc and general living got harder so of coarse litte perks suffer first ie boats etc.

Lets put this back into perspective, obviously somethings not working.

It has taken a class representative 1 and a bit months to reply to a discussion thread. And Lethal has only been a member of the site since 10/03/2011.

If your a class president why dont you have a login previously to this I have also stated somewhere that a rep should be monitoring this website at least once a week to answer any question etc that there may be.

As I have said I put my hand up to jump in and be apart of the FA association to help get it up and at large again.

Question are FLYING ANTS on facebook.

NO well they are now because I have created a page for FLYING ANTS NSW. Majority of the kids use these social networking sites. We can post state tilte events pic info etc links things this site doesnt do and they can chat real time.

Again I am not having a go at anyone just stating what I see, and the people that arnt sailing ants.

m d
Posts:1

Posted:11-04-2011 6:02 PM

Hey FA513,
I'm a new member here. I'm a dad of a potential Ant sailor (current sailor in another class, but keen on the Ant). So I'm not an Ant regular, but I've been around other boats and clubs for a while. Half of me wants to say "well done", stir things up, great that you have some passion and a desire to make a difference. Many of us want kids to be sailing and the Ant is a great boat. The other half of me says your barking up the wrong tree with criticising things in a way to simply get other keen folks offside. My advice is (a) keep on with the positive things about Ants and sailing for young people and (b) dont simply announce the negatives. I know my advice to you is probably a bit "grandpa" like, but I hope you can see the positives and see that building things up is better than knocking them down (but always harder)!! Keep the passion.
Regards. W.

Graham Vickers
Posts:2

Posted:30-03-2012 4:34 AM
Hi, been a while. I certainly stirred things up great result at the time I was not getting any help and speaking to the kids they were not up to date with the class rules ie age group. It's good to see fa are trialling the asymmetrical kite will bring the class up to date keep kids in longer Graham aka fa513

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